INTERVIEW

JT: That blind eye that has been turned to Indigenous solutions or Indigenous world views, sciences, and things, is part of how we are in this problem right now with the climate. Yet, the journalism still so often misses that. I mean, just when you said it’s a point of difference, it’s somewhat of a shame that it is a point of difference.

TA: As a point of difference, a lot of it again is, I think, the difference in how we go about doing our work as Indigenous journalists. I think Indigenous journalism is a different way of doing journalism than most Western style of reporting. We go about our work differently. We go about how we gather our information, report it out differently. Most importantly, I think the reasons that we do our work are quite different than the reason that Western journalists do their work.

“I think generally, in my experience, most newsrooms are not interested in sort of grappling with other ways of going about the work. ” – Tristan Ahtone

So already, this isn’t just sort of a different dialect and language. This is a completely different language in which we work as Indigenous journalists. So I don’t think it’s uncommon to have a difference in how we go about our work than our non-Indigenous comrades and compatriots, but I think it does offer a lot of opportunity for newsrooms that are not Indigenous-run to learn a lot from things that we do and maybe think more critically about the climate and the coverage that they are doing.

JT: Yeah, because you’ve been in Indigenous journalism, but you’ve also worked for mainstream, local, national, global organisations, Indigenous-owned, but also Indigenous-run media, you’ve covered the spectrum basically. How do you see the distinction and what is it that global media can most learn?

TA: Well, how much time do you have? I can probably best speak to right now for journalists here in the United States. The reason I think a lot of American reporters sort of do what they do, they tend to sort of link their work to foundational documents to the nation, right? We’re thinking, you know, our first amendment rights as reporters here are enshrined in foundational documents of the United States. And as you can see across, I think, a large spectrum of journalism is that reporters work for democracy and they work for American democracy here quite often. You know, the Washington Post has their masthead of ‘democracy dies in darkness’, right?

When it comes to the work of Indigenous journalists, though, is that our nationhoods and our communities are not connected to those founding documents, that also means that our journalism is functioning in very, very different ways. I think of it as journalism that is really focused on self-determination and sovereignty, right? Ideas that are inherently in conflict with the American project and those foundational documents that journalists so often lean on. So I think one of the learning things here is that, if we can think of different ways as to why we go about our reporting and how we go about it and the ethics around those, then we can really start thinking about different ways in which we can really serve readers and our audiences in the work that we do.

“We see these areas in which we’re working and communicating and sharing quite often. I think they’re not particularly legible or visible to non-Indigenous newsrooms and reporters quite often. But I think that also speaks to sort of the difference in what we do and how we do it, and whether or not there’s a willingness from industry to embrace what we do and join in  or continue to silo.” – Tristan Ahtone

I think it’s the same with climate as well. At the end of the day, we’re not working for American democracy when we’re working to cover climate. We’re working for the good of the planet, for literally planetary health, right? So when we’re thinking about why we do what we do, I think one of the many things that Indigenous journalism can sort of teach other reporters in the world is that there are ways of going about doing work, and there are other ways of thinking about it. But they’re always in service to an audience which is, I think, what we do as reporters regardless. And that’s the one common ground I think we all have. But why we do that is, I think, a different question a lot of the time. And I think a lot of reporters could learn quite a bit from sort of thinking more broadly about the work that they do.

JT: And do you think many organisations, in the global sense, are open to that different perspective or different way of thinking about journalism? Because, you know, some see it as some kind of natural ‘written in stone’ way of going about things, you know, those Reithian doctrines. Are they open to that different way of doing things?

TA: Generally, no, I don’t think so. I obviously don’t know the sort of situation in all newsrooms around the world, but, there’s a reason for the sort of rules and regulations and perspectives that are built into the journalism industry. Generally, it’s to keep people of colour out of those industries. The idea of objectivity, which is debated ad nauseum. These are put in place so that we’re not allowed to bring our sort of historical context or our understanding of situations beyond the here and now. Journalism is built so that you don’t have to think about the past a lot of the time unless the reporter wants you to be able to do that, unless it’s important to the story and if the story may inherently question the legitimacy of your government information or the solution that you’re bringing, this obviously becomes a big issue. So, a longer, deeper discussion I think in terms of what the industry can and can’t do, but I think generally, in my experience, most newsrooms are not interested in sort of grappling with other ways of going about the work.

JT: And you spoke there about experiences in the United States, but many of the things you said would resonate quite strongly with Indigenous journalists from many other nations. Like what you were saying there, are similar experiences I’ve had in Māori journalism and the founding documents, maybe not First Amendment, but Treaty of Waitangi, all those sorts of things, there’s many similarities. What solidarity do you see among First Nations, Indigenous journalists, or are there examples, ways to learn from each other?

TA: A tonne these days, and a lot of it comes from just having access to internet, so that we can communicate with each other. I can speak with you on the other side of the world right now, we can talk about our work, we can talk about our ideas. It makes a huge difference in being able to work with other Indigenous reporters and newsrooms. So I think that solidarity is now being able to enter sort of a communication era in which we can really be working with each other in real time. You see this with the newly founded Indigenous News Alliance, in which you have newsrooms from across the planet, Indigenous newsrooms and Indigenous affairs lists, able to collaborate in real time on everything from story sharing to investigations.

We see this in idea sharing at places like the Indigenous Media Conference, the World Indigenous Broadcast Network. We see these areas in which we’re working and communicating and sharing quite often. I think they’re not particularly legible or visible to non-Indigenous newsrooms and reporters quite often. But I think that also, again, speaks to sort of the difference in what we do and how we do it, and whether or not there’s a willingness from industry to embrace what we do and join in with that or continue to silo.

JT: You mentioned the Indigenous News Alliance that literally only launched a couple of months ago. What is the thinking behind that and what are the aspirations for it?

TA: Well, generally we wanted to make sure that all of our Indigenous newsrooms and affairs desks could be sharing content much more easily. We want to make sure that we, to some degree, have a news wire for Indigenous media that we will have, that we’re able to republish stories from comrades in Canada or New Zealand or other tribal news outlets in the US, that we can be working together to get stories out and maybe even avoid doubling up on work a lot of the time when we’re covering the same story. That we can be in touch and figure out how we can do that together to share resources.

I think more broadly in the future, what we’re thinking about is how we can do a lot more cross-border collaboration, and specifically cross-border investigations. Our issues and the way in which we deal with our colonial governments or industries or whatnot are often quite similar and often are the same companies that are operated in all of our different communities or territories. So I think there’s a lot of opportunity to start doing this kind of work cross border, so this is really sort of where we’re at right now, thinking about how do we share resources and how do we do more impactful work that can really serve audiences anywhere in the world.

JT: And just to cap this off, this of course is for the Global Media Forum, a conference for global media organisations. Why is it relevant to them what we’re talking about, for, example, the remote Northern Territory? Why is it important for international organisations, both in terms of reconciliation and content?

DB: Because we’re a global community, and the stories that are happening at Lajamanu, Peppimenarti, or Tennant Creek, the lands of the mighty Warumungu people where I grew up, are just as relevant to the global audience, because ultimately, we are a world of people. And the thread that connects us in this studio to you joining from wherever you are across Europe, right around the world, gathering for this very important conference, is it’s about stories. It’s about the way that we platform stories, how we tell them, who gets a chance to speak, what are the micro-decisions that are made that have an impact on the way that we see each other as a planet. So it’s about people and it’s about stories.

And there’s that great saying that when a butterfly flaps its wings in one continent, it can cause a ripple effect right around the world. We just don’t know what it can mean when we hear each other’s stories, and that’s why it’s so crucial that we all do understand each other’s stories and that we ultimately understand ourselves and each other better. I think that’s the work that we’re in and it’s why it’s so crucial now more than ever particularly as we are seeing challenges to the work that we do. An uprise, an uptick in misinformation, disinformation, very attacks on the media by people in positions of extraordinary power – it’s where we’ve got to stand more firm than ever before.

KW: Yeah, and I’m just reflecting on what Dan was saying, and Jamie, seeing your face, remembering that we met at the Public Broadcasters International Conference in Ottawa in 2024. And since then, Dan and I have gone on to have conversations at UNESCO and United Nations headquarters in New York around an Indigenous cohort. And I feel like those voices are rising around the globe. We are all interconnected as First Nations people, but more broadly as people living on Earth.

And for me, you look at the disparity of conversations and how very different – It’s like there’s two separate conversations going on. There’s the First Nations conversation of how we live and work and have a community-based approach where everyone’s opinions are considered and valued and we move forward together, to this whole other conversation around supporting one person in power and that sort of disparate view of how we move forward as the human race.

“As each national broadcaster, what are you doing to elevate First Nations voices where you are in the jurisdiction that you speak to, where you broadcast to? What is the responsibility of you, of each of us, as individual broadcasters? It’s something I think we should all be reflecting on, and I hope that you’ll take some time to do that.” – Dan Bourchier

I think somewhere in the middle there is the way we can all work together, but the only way we’re going to do that is to share the stories around how First Nations people have done that very successfully with quite advanced political systems and a concept of unity that has happened in this country for tens of thousands of years.

DB: There are two calls to action that I would have for the global broadcasters that, as you’re watching us and connecting with what we’re saying right now. One is: How can you be involved in, let’s call it an alliance for Indigenous media, about a place that helps to tell the stories and elevate and really amplify First Nations voices around the world? And the second thing: As each national broadcaster, what are you doing to elevate First Nations voices where you are in the jurisdiction that you speak to, where you broadcast to? What is the responsibility of you, of each of us, as individual broadcasters? It’s something I think we should all be reflecting on, and I hope that you’ll take some time to do that.